The Vocal Fries
The monthly podcast about linguistic discrimination. Learn about how we judge other people's speech as a sneaky way to be racist, sexist, classist, etc. Carrie and Megan teach you how to stop being an accidental jerk. Support this podcast at www.patreon.com/vocalfriespod
The Vocal Fries
Dr G Squared
Carrie and Megan talk with Dr Geneva Smitherman/Dr. G about her book My Soul Look Back In Wonder, narrative essays about her race, gender, class, and linguistic consciousness as a member of the Black Power Generation of the 1960s and 70s.
Quebec economic immigrants
Contact us:
- Threads us @vocalfriespod
- Bluesky us @vocalfriespod.bsky.social
- Email us at vocalfriespod@gmail.com
Thanks for listening and keep calm and fry on
Geneva Smitherman: Doctor G you know, that's what my students might do in my first class. I turn after I get my PhD. I was in the air from the department at Harvard. Which is just been sent out in the students there, gave me that name. They said, we can't call you Dr. Smitherman. That's true.
Carrie Gillon Hi, welcome to the present podcast. Podcast starting with a discrimination.
Megan Figueroa: I'm Megan Figueroa.
Carrie Gillon: And I'm Carrie Gillon.
Carrie Gillon: So today I thought we would talk about Quebec.
Megan Figueroa: Yes, tell me. We've talked about Quebec before.
Carrie Gillon: Yes, we have. Quebec nationalist, Francois LEGO, what's the Canadian province of Quebec to welcome economic immigrants who can speak French in the future?
Megan Figueroa: Economic immigrants. So basically people looking for jobs?
Carrie Gillon: Yeah, so basically not the refugees, you know, people who are who are migrating to Canada under sort of. And not family reunification either, right? So just people who are moving for work purposes.
Megan Figueroa: So solo, individuals.
Carrie Gillon: Uh. Not necessarily. It could be a whole family. It's just that you're not reunifying, right?
Megan Figueroa: Interesting. Okay.
[00:01:32.930] speaker 2:
There's no person here who can with the word.
[00:01:39.710] speaker 2:
I can't remember, but there's like a fan, there's a family cat, there's a family category, right?
[00:01:44.210] speaker 2:
Okay.
[00:01:44.570] speaker 2:
And that would be still fine, like stay the same.
Carrie Gillon: So it's just the people moving for economic reasons.
Megan Figueroa: Okay. I mean, that's a lot of what happens here and has been happening here. Before we had like, in the 90s and early 2000s, I think about like in the southwest, but.
Carrie Gillon: Yeah, you have the same basic categories you have refugees and asylees. You have like family reunification. and then you have the economic. You have all of them.
Megan Figueroa: I've just never heard economic immigration. I don't know why. Probably because we have such gross rhetoric and such surrounding.
Carrie Gillon: Probably.
Megan Figueroa: Yeah. Okay, go on, go on. Okay, so if they speak French, they're in. That's what he's saying.
Carrie Gillon: He's saying, basically, yeah, it's just another hoop you have to jump through to be accepted.
Megan Figueroa: Okay.
[00:02:35.510] speaker 3:
I.
[00:02:35.630] speaker 2:
Could think of back.
[00:02:36.650] speaker 2:
So basically,
[00:02:37.970] speaker 2:
yeah,
[00:02:38.150] speaker 2:
so he wants to have only francophone economic immigrants by 2026.
[00:02:43.670] speaker 2:
I was just coming back soon.
[00:02:45.350] speaker 2:
Wow.
[00:02:46.370] speaker 2:
He said in his previous run as premier, 80% of the economic immigrants spoke French.
[00:02:55.670] speaker 2:
And before that, it was 40 to 50%.
[00:02:58.310] speaker 3:
Premiere is that like the governor?
[00:03:00.110] speaker 2:
Yeah, I guess, yes, it's basically somewhat equivalent to a governor.
[00:03:04.490] speaker 2:
It's not the same because the premier and the prime minister in a parliamentary system have to be the leader of their own party in order to also be the leader of the province or the country.
[00:03:16.490] speaker 2:
But functionally, it's just the closest equivalent to a governor, yes.
[00:03:20.510] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:03:21.350] speaker 3:
Okay, so he has had like a very powerful leadership role before.
[00:03:27.470] speaker 3:
But he's not empowered right now in.
[00:03:29.150] speaker 2:
Any way.
[00:03:29.390] speaker 2:
No, he is.
[00:03:30.170] speaker 2:
Oh, he is.
[00:03:31.070] speaker 2:
He's the premier.
[00:03:32.390] speaker 3:
Okay, currently, current.
[00:03:33.590] speaker 3:
Okay.
[00:03:34.670] speaker 3:
And he's saying, since the time that he's been there, it's been 80% Frank falls.
[00:03:40.430] speaker 2:
It's like a phone.
[00:03:41.630] speaker 2:
Francophile means you love French.
[00:03:43.370] speaker 3:
That's right.
[00:03:44.210] speaker 3:
It's true.
[00:03:45.170] speaker 3:
It's true.
[00:03:47.150] speaker 3:
Anyway, yeah, francophones.
[00:03:49.130] speaker 3:
Okay.
[00:03:50.090] speaker 3:
Anyway, 80% of the economic immigrants have been francophones.
[00:03:53.330] speaker 3:
But that's just been a coincidence because it's not law or required yet.
[00:03:57.710] speaker 2:
I don't know if it's a coincidence.
[00:03:59.690] speaker 2:
You know, you have a fair amount of power if you're in a leadership role, right?
[00:04:05.150] speaker 2:
If you're the premier, you can kind of have your will trickle down through the bureau of bureaucratic ranks, right?
[00:04:14.270] speaker 3:
Yes, yes, you're right.
[00:04:16.910] speaker 2:
But yeah, he can't force it probably a 100%.
[00:04:20.630] speaker 2:
Until he passes a lot.
[00:04:21.950] speaker 2:
I don't know like in terms of Canadian law, if that's going to be deemed legal or not.
[00:04:27.530] speaker 2:
So.
[00:04:27.770] speaker 3:
That actually reminds me of something that's going on.
[00:04:30.710] speaker 2:
It hit BC pretty badly.
[00:04:34.310] speaker 2:
That Canada basically ran out of all children's Tylenol products because RSV hit us in the flu.
[00:04:43.550] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:04:43.790] speaker 2:
It is really, really hard.
[00:04:44.810] speaker 2:
It's starting to hit the U.S. right now, but it hit us earlier.
[00:04:49.010] speaker 2:
Anyway, so ran out of all these products.
[00:04:50.570] speaker 2:
And so in order to import them, you can't just import them because there's no French often on the packaging.
[00:04:58.070] speaker 2:
So they had to figure out a way to like print off special French.
[00:05:02.570] speaker 2:
Really?
[00:05:03.410] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:05:04.310] speaker 3:
Okay, so in Quebec, you have to have signs in both French and English and even the products.
[00:05:10.550] speaker 2:
In Canada, all products have to have both of.
[00:05:12.890] speaker 3:
These both in French and English.
[00:05:14.270] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:05:14.870] speaker 3:
But not all signs in all provinces.
[00:05:17.510] speaker 2:
No, no.
[00:05:18.170] speaker 2:
Oh, the signs are.
[00:05:20.870] speaker 2:
I mean, probably New Brunswick because it's actually functionally a bilingual province.
[00:05:25.610] speaker 2:
But certainly Inca back there, very strict language lies about how big the signs can be.
[00:05:31.010] speaker 3:
In English versus French.
[00:05:32.690] speaker 2:
Or other languages.
[00:05:34.850] speaker 2:
French always has to be the biggest.
[00:05:37.010] speaker 3:
I mean, every time we talk about Quebec, I'm just gobsmacked by this.
[00:05:44.990] speaker 3:
Because we have such English supremacy here.
[00:05:49.490] speaker 3:
Mhm.
[00:05:50.270] speaker 3:
Because of power.
[00:05:52.250] speaker 3:
But just the idea of like a bilingual trilingual or whatever.
[00:05:56.150] speaker 3:
Multilingual place.
[00:05:58.130] speaker 3:
Is I guess it's just like so foreign to me.
[00:06:02.750] speaker 2:
Right, but to be fair, Quebec is actually trying to be much more monolingual.
[00:06:08.330] speaker 3:
That's right, that's right, but toward French, yes, yes.
[00:06:11.450] speaker 3:
That's a lot.
[00:06:12.470] speaker 3:
We did want an intro where we were talking about that.
[00:06:15.650] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:06:15.890] speaker 2:
So this is all part of that.
[00:06:17.030] speaker 2:
This is where the Quebec premier is doing like every I swear every few months, there's a new language law proposed and or past.
[00:06:25.430] speaker 2:
Making was yet more magician.
[00:06:28.550] speaker 3:
Yeah, and like you mentioned this guy wants to do it in like a short amount of time.
[00:06:35.450] speaker 3:
Like doing all this changing these things, the time that he wants to do it by.
[00:06:42.110] speaker 3:
I mean, that's going to affect people that are already living there.
[00:06:44.810] speaker 3:
No?
[00:06:45.650] speaker 2:
Not really.
[00:06:46.250] speaker 2:
I mean, you're already there and the rules are already quite strict, right?
[00:06:49.370] speaker 2:
Like remember how we talked about within 6 months, you had to start switching all your services into French.
[00:06:54.350] speaker 3:
Oh, that's right.
[00:06:55.310] speaker 3:
Okay.
[00:06:55.910] speaker 2:
Yeah, so it's not going to affect them.
[00:06:57.890] speaker 2:
They're already under that.
[00:07:00.050] speaker 3:
Okay, they're not going to be like kicked out.
[00:07:02.510] speaker 3:
No.
[00:07:02.990] speaker 3:
These economic immigrants won't be.
[00:07:05.570] speaker 2:
No, unless they come in crime or something.
[00:07:08.150] speaker 3:
Okay.
[00:07:08.690] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:07:09.530] speaker 3:
But not because of the language thing, but they probably already.
[00:07:13.490] speaker 2:
Now, once you're here, it's pretty hard to get kicked out.
[00:07:17.330] speaker 3:
Mmm um.
[00:07:18.230] speaker 3:
So does he refuse to speak English?
[00:07:20.630] speaker 3:
I'm just wondering about him.
[00:07:22.910] speaker 2:
That is a.
[00:07:23.330] speaker 3:
Good question.
[00:07:24.650] speaker 3:
I'm just trying to imagine this man and this is what I'm imagining.
[00:07:32.750] speaker 2:
And my guess is he he does because he kind of has to.
[00:07:35.750] speaker 3:
Uh huh.
[00:07:36.830] speaker 2:
But he might not.
[00:07:37.910] speaker 2:
There's a small chance that he doesn't.
[00:07:40.070] speaker 2:
Okay, he refused to participate in the English language debate before the previous election.
[00:07:49.130] speaker 2:
So he just got reelected basically.
[00:07:52.850] speaker 3:
Wow.
[00:07:54.470] speaker 3:
And voters, I guess you're not there, but I just wonder if people in Quebec are like respect that decision.
[00:08:03.590] speaker 3:
Oh, you know.
[00:08:04.010] speaker 2:
For sure.
[00:08:04.970] speaker 2:
Okay.
[00:08:05.630] speaker 2:
I mean, obviously not all everybody there, but there will definitely be a pretty solid base.
[00:08:11.210] speaker 2:
That would respect that.
[00:08:13.130] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:08:13.790] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:08:14.750] speaker 2:
And you know, to be fair, Quebec is a French speaking province.
[00:08:18.470] speaker 2:
Sure.
[00:08:18.770] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:08:19.910] speaker 2:
It's not strictly speaking bilingual, even though Montreal is.
[00:08:23.390] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:08:23.630] speaker 2:
Bilingual.
[00:08:24.290] speaker 2:
Sure.
[00:08:24.770] speaker 2:
So and there are actually are some like pockets of small towns that are English.
[00:08:29.870] speaker 2:
But, you know, by legislation, it is a French province.
[00:08:33.230] speaker 2:
So it kind of makes sense that he would do that.
[00:08:36.110] speaker 2:
There's no way that there would be a French debate here in BC.
[00:08:41.990] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:08:42.830] speaker 2:
It's completely.
[00:08:43.850] speaker 3:
Well, it doesn't make sense, right?
[00:08:46.190] speaker 2:
But if you want any, if you have any federal aspirations, then you bet or learn French if you're an English speaker.
[00:08:52.730] speaker 3:
Wait, but how good is Justin Trudeau's French?
[00:08:55.730] speaker 2:
I mean, his dad is this quebecois.
[00:08:58.010] speaker 2:
Oh, he's a French speaker too.
[00:09:00.770] speaker 2:
Like I think he's actually probably speaking French.
[00:09:03.710] speaker 2:
Yeah, I think he's actually probably a really balanced bilingual.
[00:09:06.830] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:09:07.370] speaker 3:
I've never heard him speak French.
[00:09:08.690] speaker 3:
Now that I think about it.
[00:09:10.430] speaker 3:
As if I would know yeah, anything, definitely no.
[00:09:13.850] speaker 3:
You wouldn't be able to tell.
[00:09:15.170] speaker 3:
No, I'm not sure.
[00:09:16.790] speaker 2:
But I can tell that he.
[00:09:18.050] speaker 3:
Speaks.
[00:09:19.250] speaker 2:
French.
[00:09:19.550] speaker 2:
He's just going to sound like an anglophone speaking French.
[00:09:22.010] speaker 2:
I can tell you that.
[00:09:24.830] speaker 3:
I know what that sounds like.
[00:09:26.690] speaker 3:
Right.
[00:09:27.650] speaker 2:
Because that's me.
[00:09:29.870] speaker 2:
But yeah,
[00:09:30.350] speaker 2:
so he just, I think part of this is that he just won.
[00:09:33.890] speaker 3:
The provincial election, and now he's like, all.
[00:09:36.110] speaker 2:
Right, last time I was 80%, this time 100%.
[00:09:39.530] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:09:40.130] speaker 3:
He's like, here's my hundred day my first hundred day gender or whatever.
[00:09:43.970] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:09:45.350] speaker 3:
Okay, so we'll probably see some more stuff coming out of that soon about language.
[00:09:51.230] speaker 2:
It's just constant.
[00:09:51.950] speaker 2:
It's a constant stream of language news out of Quebec.
[00:09:55.250] speaker 3:
Wow.
[00:09:56.510] speaker 3:
If anyone ever thought that language wasn't important, for some reason, I mean, it is everywhere.
[00:10:05.270] speaker 3:
It's extremely.
[00:10:06.110] speaker 2:
Important.
[00:10:06.770] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:10:07.490] speaker 2:
And every community looks at it slightly differently.
[00:10:10.670] speaker 2:
And it's different.
[00:10:11.630] speaker 3:
Concerns.
[00:10:12.710] speaker 3:
Exactly.
[00:10:13.610] speaker 3:
Exactly.
[00:10:14.570] speaker 3:
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:10:17.030] speaker 3:
We have such a good episode.
[00:10:18.470] speaker 2:
We do.
[00:10:19.250] speaker 2:
I know.
[00:10:20.450] speaker 2:
We get to talk to one of the yes, someone who's involved in the black power movement.
[00:10:27.470] speaker 3:
And she was just, I just, I loved chatting with her so much.
[00:10:32.690] speaker 3:
I could have gone on forever.
[00:10:35.450] speaker 2:
Yes.
[00:10:36.290] speaker 3:
And I felt so good after our conversation.
[00:10:39.350] speaker 2:
Yeah.
[00:10:40.490] speaker 2:
Yes, that was a really, it was really uplifting conversation.
[00:10:43.550] speaker 2:
It was, it.
[00:10:44.330] speaker 3:
Was.
[00:10:45.110] speaker 3:
We hope you enjoy listening to this conversation that, yeah.
[00:10:49.550] speaker 3:
It was very, it was very fun and uplifting to have.
[00:10:53.330] speaker 2:
Yes, enjoy.
[00:11:04.610] speaker 3:
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What was your first word, Carrie?
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What did your mom or dad tell you?
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I don't remember.
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I remember the first question I asked when we got to the cabin, which had no electricity.
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I was like, where's the TV?
[00:11:51.230] speaker 2:
So that clearly tells you something about me.
[00:11:53.810] speaker 2:
But I don't remember what my first words were.
[00:11:56.090] speaker 2:
Do you know yours?
[00:11:57.110] speaker 3:
Button.
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I.
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Don't know why I find that so cute, but I really do.
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Yeah.
[00:12:03.710] speaker 3:
Because I was very curious about buttons, apparently.
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They also have some episodes on why some people still speak that.
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You know, it was related to the.
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So if you like our podcast, you're almost certain to subtitle.
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So go check it out.
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Doctor Geneva smitherman is a university distinguished professor emerita of English and cofounder of the African-American and African studies doctoral program at Michigan state university.
[00:13:09.890] speaker 2:
Smitherman, cofounded the first public African censured elementary school in the country, Malcolm X academy within the Detroit public schools.
[00:13:18.350] speaker 2:
She is also known as doctor G, or doctor smitherman, and the queen of black language.
[00:13:24.050] speaker 2:
She's the author of my soul, like back in wonder, narrative essays about her race, gender class, and linguistic, consciousness, as a member of the black power generation of the 1960s and 1970s, so welcome doctor G.
[00:13:37.430] speaker 1:
Thank you.
[00:13:38.030] speaker 3:
Welcome.
[00:13:38.990] speaker 3:
Thank you.
[00:13:39.470] speaker 3:
You're so excited to have you.
[00:13:41.870] speaker 3:
I'm so excited to meet you.
[00:13:43.910] speaker 3:
I really have to say that you're writing is beautiful.
[00:13:47.330] speaker 3:
I really is.
[00:13:48.830] speaker 3:
Knocks me up.
[00:13:51.470] speaker 3:
And.
[00:13:51.770] speaker 1:
Writing.
[00:13:52.370] speaker 1:
Thank you.
[00:13:53.030] speaker 3:
Oh God, you should.
[00:13:54.590] speaker 3:
You should.
[00:13:55.250] speaker 3:
You really should be proud.
[00:13:56.570] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:13:56.870] speaker 3:
Because.
[00:13:57.350] speaker 2:
You know, most academics are not that good writers.
[00:14:00.410] speaker 1:
Tell me about it.
[00:14:01.910] speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:04.130] speaker 2:
The first.
[00:14:04.490] speaker 3:
Question.
[00:14:04.730] speaker 2:
We have is, why did you want to write this book?
[00:14:07.010] speaker 1:
Well, I guess it would have been it being is wherever I would go and give talks in the community or in different campuses.
[00:14:18.710] speaker 1:
People who would ask me had it?
[00:14:21.890] speaker 1:
Where are you from?
[00:14:22.730] speaker 1:
How did you get this thinking?
[00:14:26.390] speaker 1:
At the time, I would have to say nothing beyond the competition and rhetoric.
[00:14:33.050] speaker 1:
Which is an allied heal of linguistics.
[00:14:36.530] speaker 1:
It was very conservative.
[00:14:39.050] speaker 1:
I mean, I mean, teaching me keys in English, and I mean king, they wouldn't even say queens.
[00:14:46.370] speaker 1:
And then when it all happened, oh, and latinate grammar.
[00:14:52.070] speaker 1:
That's the kind of agreement that we linguistics became and enlightened the young people recognize that Roman in fittings.
[00:15:04.430] speaker 1:
But that's what they were teaching in the late 50s and 60s.
[00:15:08.270] speaker 1:
And so.
[00:15:12.170] speaker 1:
Are you remembering that this is getting a long way round here?
[00:15:16.550] speaker 1:
But I remember.
[00:15:20.150] speaker 1:
Meeting and metro Detroit.
[00:15:23.090] speaker 1:
They invited me at the top about language and the proposals that the excuse was coming up with.
[00:15:33.830] speaker 1:
And in that community meeting, I did what I thought was the correct thing that I was being trained and knew at this prestige, yes.
[00:15:46.310] speaker 1:
White university.
[00:15:47.570] speaker 3:
Of Michigan, and I heard.
[00:15:50.750] speaker 1:
The only black student in the damn graduate class.
[00:15:55.370] speaker 1:
I presented the thinking about languages and what African-American language, how it fits the model.
[00:16:04.070] speaker 1:
And so on.
[00:16:05.030] speaker 1:
And everyone was listening to me to me.
[00:16:08.810] speaker 1:
And then this and that will forget it.
[00:16:12.470] speaker 1:
Because I was really young when everything was in my early 20s.
[00:16:17.450] speaker 1:
And this one illness stood up and saying, if black English, his name is still using the term banking.
[00:16:27.290] speaker 1:
And black English is so good, miss Smith are men.
[00:16:32.390] speaker 1:
Where are you talking to us in 9 black English?
[00:16:38.090] speaker 1:
Like, I was using academic standard.
[00:16:45.230] speaker 1:
Dads when English.
[00:16:46.970] speaker 1:
I never had thought of it.
[00:16:48.110] speaker 1:
So she was that question.
[00:16:50.510] speaker 1:
If it's no, again, why are you not using that language?
[00:16:54.050] speaker 1:
So from that point on, and went home and remixed that paper with hockey mana moody's, Democrats screamed, poetics, and all in like language, wrote a printed page.
[00:17:10.670] speaker 1:
And I started writing academic articles.
[00:17:17.030] speaker 1:
For publication, using a mixture of the standard ass.
[00:17:23.750] speaker 1:
Whining this.
[00:17:25.190] speaker 1:
And black community language.
[00:17:27.530] speaker 1:
That was the very sparse that didn't do that in the video actually.
[00:17:31.310] speaker 1:
And it's very complicated in 19 70 and the English teacher where you been doing the things you don't do with my title.
[00:17:42.890] speaker 1:
And you know, since that moment, everybody having real people when saying, what do you do to idea?
[00:17:51.590] speaker 1:
How did you put me in and you start trying to write in the language?
[00:17:56.930] speaker 1:
And I said, well, the community that raised me.
[00:18:02.210] speaker 1:
And gave me birth, yes.
[00:18:05.150] speaker 1:
That was an attack.
[00:18:06.230] speaker 1:
I'm thinking I'm being cool and down.
[00:18:08.870] speaker 1:
I'm with the movement.
[00:18:10.190] speaker 1:
You know, and I'm talking this standard English that I'm learning up here in this elite.
[00:18:16.490] speaker 1:
You know, to acting in university.
[00:18:18.290] speaker 1:
I thought it was the right thing.
[00:18:20.570] speaker 1:
They were new, and they were so good.
[00:18:23.090] speaker 1:
And you ain't using that.
[00:18:25.250] speaker 1:
We urge you to say nothing out of your mouth.
[00:18:27.830] speaker 1:
That's blank English.
[00:18:29.990] speaker 1:
And that was devastating.
[00:18:31.670] speaker 1:
So the community taught me how to relate.
[00:18:39.830] speaker 1:
We have communicating complex material, which they needed to know.
[00:18:45.650] speaker 1:
To make appropriate policy decisions about their kids.
[00:18:50.870] speaker 1:
They taught me how to do that.
[00:18:53.750] speaker 1:
And I started practicing.
[00:18:55.910] speaker 1:
I would get in front of the mirror in this practice by myself and watch myself
[00:19:01.070] speaker 1:
and then I had my little Sunday school kids.
[00:19:04.670] speaker 1:
I would practice some new lessons on them and so eventually that if they were to hear it, that's how I came to develop my style.
[00:19:15.710] speaker 1:
And that's when I went in the field of linguistics and black studies that I became known for.
[00:19:26.210] speaker 2:
That was one of my favorite.
[00:19:27.110] speaker 3:
Parts.
[00:19:27.350] speaker 2:
Of your book actually.
[00:19:28.370] speaker 2:
It.
[00:19:28.430] speaker 3:
Was.
[00:19:28.610] speaker 2:
That story and it was really.
[00:19:29.690] speaker 3:
Hoping that you would talk about it.
[00:19:31.790] speaker 2:
Because yeah, I think I've seen those kind of call outs.
[00:19:35.570] speaker 2:
So I work.
[00:19:37.430] speaker 3:
For the squamish nation.
[00:19:38.450] speaker 3:
So First Nations here in British.
[00:19:40.610] speaker 2:
Columbia.
[00:19:41.330] speaker 2:
And I.
[00:19:41.690] speaker 3:
See those kinds of call outs in that community as well.
[00:19:44.750] speaker 3:
And.
[00:19:45.410] speaker 2:
Yeah, so it's really really.
[00:19:47.450] speaker 3:
Appreciated that story.
[00:19:48.710] speaker 1:
Okay.
[00:19:51.110] speaker 2:
So one of the things I also wanted to ask you about was the term womanist because I think that a lot of people don't know what that means.
[00:19:58.610] speaker 2:
And so why do you call yourself a womanist and what does it mean?
[00:20:03.050] speaker 1:
Well, I know that term in Maryland, sister Alice Walker.
[00:20:09.950] speaker 1:
You may remember some prayers, many of the novel, the color purple, which Oprah Winfrey turned into a movie and so on.
[00:20:19.490] speaker 1:
And he's back.
[00:20:22.250] speaker 1:
Oh, this would have been 16 way back then.
[00:20:26.030] speaker 1:
Alice Walker and her community talks and writing when he's being at the top.
[00:20:32.390] speaker 1:
And now, women is liberation in women, the American, and the mind, is very cruise of this and they want to.
[00:20:45.110] speaker 1:
But she was the first person to use that term.
[00:20:48.950] speaker 1:
In fact, she is credited with having coined the term womanist.
[00:20:53.990] speaker 1:
And we didn't see many men.
[00:20:57.050] speaker 1:
She said, and if black liberation is going to mean anything to people, it is to involve everyone.
[00:21:08.210] speaker 1:
We can't just take a lot of chauvinism.
[00:21:16.370] speaker 1:
And what do you all call it today?
[00:21:19.670] speaker 1:
Masculinity.
[00:21:21.830] speaker 1:
Talk and act in and going on about this can mean leaders.
[00:21:28.610] speaker 1:
And who's really leading the strongest and so on?
[00:21:33.110] speaker 1:
And here comes this way.
[00:21:35.510] speaker 1:
We need everybody in this struggle.
[00:21:41.690] speaker 1:
We and we need to be concerned about every man.
[00:21:46.070] speaker 1:
Maybe just young black men and women doing about the owners, the older people, and what about the young kids?
[00:21:54.890] speaker 1:
And the teenagers.
[00:21:57.530] speaker 1:
So definition is that a woman is a parent, male or female, or even now, when you are calling a GQ, I mean, genuine is not relevant.
[00:22:14.090] speaker 1:
In those things, we never do genders, quote unquote, because we had none of that.
[00:22:19.670] speaker 1:
And she said, we gave this hand type about black men, even yes, like me and women.
[00:22:27.470] speaker 1:
We have to talk about the whole community.
[00:22:31.130] speaker 1:
Only people.
[00:22:32.090] speaker 1:
Yankee is standing there and asking kids.
[00:22:35.810] speaker 1:
How do we bring everything concerned and need into the struggle?
[00:22:43.970] speaker 1:
And if you are a wearing this position, you are for everybody in the black community, regardless of age.
[00:22:55.310] speaker 1:
Or is it even saying gender?
[00:22:58.490] speaker 1:
Edging began.
[00:23:00.470] speaker 1:
And she got me concerned about the whole black community.
[00:23:04.010] speaker 1:
And that's, I said, yeah, and that's right.
[00:23:06.950] speaker 1:
And as that calling myself a woman, it's as she developed that term.
[00:23:15.650] speaker 2:
Linguistics.
[00:23:16.970] speaker 3:
Is terribly disconnected from the subfields of linguistics are terribly disconnected from each other.
[00:23:24.410] speaker 3:
And how it's not like this holistic community thing.
[00:23:28.550] speaker 3:
Do you feel the same way?
[00:23:32.090] speaker 1:
Yeah.
[00:23:37.010] speaker 1:
I'm going to study and connect as my education.
[00:23:40.790] speaker 1:
And as a discipline, it was one of my major calling is teaching.
[00:23:49.370] speaker 1:
And I wanted to be a teacher.
[00:23:52.310] speaker 1:
And that was really important.
[00:23:55.910] speaker 1:
That there is hope.
[00:23:58.850] speaker 1:
We.
[00:24:03.530] speaker 1:
All did generations kind of thing awake.
[00:24:07.490] speaker 1:
When they are, I mean, I'm not nobody they hit now to help me Jesus.
[00:24:13.310] speaker 1:
I want you to know that in this series, even as early generations, give way to a new thought.
[00:24:22.430] speaker 1:
And it's not.
[00:24:25.370] speaker 1:
I mean, listening to it has been much more disciplined and connected.
[00:24:34.670] speaker 1:
To feel that language, like education, mentally connected to anthem biology, or associate linguistics now.
[00:24:44.810] speaker 1:
So if it's getting better, in fact, I didn't know him, but it's a new project from Oxford University Press.
[00:25:00.290] speaker 1:
A new research effort, between Oxford University Press.
[00:25:11.030] speaker 1:
And the center at Harvard, which is a Spanish university.
[00:25:21.950] speaker 1:
And that OUP in harmony came up with a brand on the Mexican African-American England.
[00:25:38.570] speaker 1:
They're going to do a dictionary, actually, dictionary of African-American English.
[00:25:46.250] speaker 1:
And it's going to come out.
[00:25:47.390] speaker 1:
It's a three year project.
[00:25:48.770] speaker 1:
And he had big spending more from hiring me from the accent University Press people.
[00:25:59.270] speaker 1:
Somehow, several foundations.
[00:26:02.570] speaker 1:
And we're there with the.
[00:26:10.610] speaker 1:
Aims to do that in this train.
[00:26:13.370] speaker 1:
It's a really.
[00:26:21.770] speaker 1:
Important.
[00:26:29.930] speaker 1:
African-American language.
[00:26:33.230] speaker 1:
When will a certain experience within it mean?
[00:26:38.510] speaker 1:
And who in the black community?
[00:26:41.450] speaker 1:
And.
[00:26:44.630] speaker 1:
Then you, in the mainstream, and other communities.
[00:26:50.990] speaker 1:
And that's all I'm going to be in the nation hearing.
[00:26:53.870] speaker 1:
And that's any that we knew in name we have here, the high elite academic and press is the max on centers.
[00:27:08.030] speaker 1:
Cooperating in thinking and that basic level, because I'm talking about where we are.
[00:27:16.490] speaker 1:
And we're saying, into the American mainstream.
[00:27:23.990] speaker 1:
It's been black music.
[00:27:25.430] speaker 1:
And now, from here, you name him here and that kind of connection.
[00:27:32.390] speaker 1:
Academic, and mainstream, every day, persistent everyday people.
[00:27:41.690] speaker 1:
So things have changed.
[00:27:44.270] speaker 1:
And urging, you know, very optimistic about it.
[00:27:50.570] speaker 3:
Your book word from the mother was actually reissued this year as well.
[00:27:55.010] speaker 3:
My soul looks back in wonder is coming out anew.
[00:27:57.350] speaker 3:
But in both books you talk about the spiritual.
[00:27:59.690] speaker 3:
You write that hip hop linguistics brings new life into old verbal forms.
[00:28:05.150] speaker 3:
How has the role of the black church in interacted with hip hop and the black language tradition?
[00:28:09.950] speaker 1:
Well, if you win things against the man immediately, the fact that.
[00:28:17.990] speaker 1:
Medium very much conditions in expressions that are now in black popular culture, including hip hop, and in Manhattan, the sound and so on.
[00:28:34.370] speaker 1:
And that in those traditions and expressions, verbal and snitches came out of the black church.
[00:28:43.370] speaker 1:
And then if you don't know that, but the boys first wrote about that.
[00:28:50.630] speaker 1:
And all of this worked on the black church.
[00:28:54.410] speaker 1:
That's what I learned.
[00:28:56.270] speaker 1:
From his writings.
[00:28:58.370] speaker 1:
And I think the going cheering is probably the most critical control instantiation in snoring in the black community.
[00:29:17.570] speaker 1:
Past, at one point in time, you go back to the pre Civil War and even post, reconstruction.
[00:29:28.370] speaker 1:
Are we here?
[00:29:31.010] speaker 1:
We didn't have musical entities in anything like what we want.
[00:29:40.310] speaker 1:
The culture that we had, and that we could manifest and embrace without restraint and constraint with the black church.
[00:29:51.230] speaker 1:
And nothing greatly, many of the very, very traditions and cultural power came out in the black church.
[00:30:00.590] speaker 1:
And when it got out of the church, it wasn't of course secularized, but it came in and it's in the blank church.
[00:30:13.490] speaker 1:
It's cam in for the communication of sorts between whoever is speaking like the minister.
[00:30:23.390] speaker 1:
When dean kind of whoever is speaking, even if it's just ordinary, bitch, warm is we call them.
[00:30:30.890] speaker 1:
It's time to add communication.
[00:30:34.070] speaker 1:
Directly in the way of opening that in the church.
[00:30:39.230] speaker 1:
And so, you know, when you see movies and you see things in the black church, you see the preacher say something and somebody said, that's right.
[00:30:46.910] speaker 1:
That's right, yep.
[00:30:47.870] speaker 1:
That's right.
[00:30:48.410] speaker 1:
Speak on it.
[00:30:50.810] speaker 1:
So that back and forth.
[00:30:53.990] speaker 1:
Nicole and the response is that in a blank search well, this transition is through early jazz.
[00:31:03.110] speaker 1:
So you know, you know, to JS and somebody on it.
[00:31:08.390] speaker 1:
With the man when we spell that James Brown, when you say, get a drama song.
[00:31:13.910] speaker 1:
And so tradition.
[00:31:18.170] speaker 1:
And in the later in the movie times tradition, that carrying on.
[00:31:23.150] speaker 1:
You know how they'll be a car from whoever is performing and say, rain your hands and air like you just don't care.
[00:31:33.110] speaker 1:
They came out of the church.
[00:31:35.330] speaker 1:
Then they can inform in this communication of back and forth between the speaker and the congregation.
[00:31:43.130] speaker 1:
The whoever is speaking will say something.
[00:31:45.710] speaker 1:
And people are just waiting to end.
[00:31:47.990] speaker 1:
You know, that's really the next thing go ahead, go ahead.
[00:31:50.570] speaker 1:
That's right, all right.
[00:31:53.810] speaker 1:
And that's how you see the power of the country and the style of the church communicate coming out of intimate secular everyday world.
[00:32:08.150] speaker 2:
Okay, so one of the things that you talk about in your book is being sent.
[00:32:11.510] speaker 3:
To speech correction therapy.
[00:32:14.030] speaker 2:
And can you.
[00:32:14.990] speaker 3:
Just explain why you were sent and, you know, what effect that had on you?
[00:32:21.410] speaker 1:
Well, in the 50s, this is in the 1970s.
[00:32:27.590] speaker 1:
If you were anything, go into teaching and get a teaching certificate.
[00:32:33.290] speaker 1:
You had to pay us a speech test.
[00:32:38.210] speaker 1:
This was during enormous things.
[00:32:43.790] speaker 1:
Not just Michigan.
[00:32:45.830] speaker 1:
So parent in this, the main thing in this being staffed was, the person in the person, the applicant.
[00:32:58.910] speaker 1:
And the traditional standard that they might say, let me grab it.
[00:33:07.610] speaker 1:
And pronunciation.
[00:33:10.430] speaker 1:
And if you didn't do that, you failed the speech dance.
[00:33:16.250] speaker 1:
So, of course, people are speaking black English like me back in the same place.
[00:33:21.770] speaker 1:
And.
[00:33:25.310] speaker 1:
Accents.
[00:33:28.070] speaker 1:
And we're being class white from like a southern Appalachian south.
[00:33:37.070] speaker 1:
Or in ermine, white working class communities and the north and those groups spoke the standards, texts of work.
[00:33:53.150] speaker 1:
Many people in those groups.
[00:33:59.210] speaker 1:
Grammy may stop the gram of land.
[00:34:01.430] speaker 1:
So it failed at anything.
[00:34:05.690] speaker 1:
And it takes me to correction.
[00:34:08.870] speaker 1:
And it may mean, and yet the paper man away.
[00:34:18.650] speaker 1:
Speech reaction.
[00:34:20.090] speaker 1:
And they had a real attitude to just like let it be in there.
[00:34:25.250] speaker 1:
And come out of my school with three college prep high school, which is basically at that time, I was all away.
[00:34:34.070] speaker 1:
The three point.
[00:34:36.350] speaker 1:
And it maintained a 3.5, you know, at scale.
[00:34:42.710] speaker 1:
My first freshman year when state and only met, I was dressed in the illness in my church, who were not founded.
[00:34:59.990] speaker 1:
And I. Really needed me the church assistant secretary.
[00:35:08.690] speaker 1:
Just because I said, ah, instead of high, you know, or where was the Netherlands, oh, oh, instead of four, you know, there's now.
[00:35:22.910] speaker 1:
It means correction is 84.
[00:35:26.210] speaker 1:
And yes, the only.
[00:35:30.350] speaker 1:
Thing I learned in the same race from that class.
[00:35:35.390] speaker 1:
Went in there.
[00:35:37.130] speaker 1:
I expected to see Negro students.
[00:35:44.630] speaker 1:
But I did expect to see Hispanic.
[00:35:48.830] speaker 1:
Wait a minute.
[00:35:50.390] speaker 1:
And I definitely didn't expect to see white people.
[00:35:53.030] speaker 1:
I said, wait, what the white folk knew in here?
[00:35:55.970] speaker 1:
These were the heavenly hatching and southern and working class whites.
[00:35:59.750] speaker 1:
We are all in there.
[00:36:01.190] speaker 1:
And the speech therapist asked us or like, dysphagia.
[00:36:07.370] speaker 1:
Dyslexia.
[00:36:12.710] speaker 1:
We didn't even have nobody who studied.
[00:36:15.350] speaker 1:
Nothing.
[00:36:16.490] speaker 1:
But when she is a speech therapist, clinicians change and deal with real bad logical, speechless or she can man nothing wrong.
[00:36:27.590] speaker 1:
And so she's the way and by the way, she was a grad student trying to get her PhD in the United.
[00:36:37.010] speaker 1:
States and she's
[00:36:39.530] speaker 1:
and she's very happy, you know, women.
[00:36:43.130] speaker 1:
Do this.
[00:36:44.510] speaker 1:
Let me think you had to do it.
[00:36:45.890] speaker 1:
He taught us the chance.
[00:36:48.470] speaker 1:
And then we'll forget that.
[00:36:50.690] speaker 1:
Every day we practice all the speech that will have the test.
[00:36:55.790] speaker 1:
Then we need the second list of words.
[00:36:59.390] speaker 1:
And then they went and they own in here to do a extemporaneous account of your life in three minutes.
[00:37:10.670] speaker 1:
And he said, yeah,
[00:37:12.050] speaker 1:
I'm the extemporaneous.
[00:37:15.410] speaker 1:
Just memorize.
[00:37:16.250] speaker 1:
It stays in the next.
[00:37:20.750] speaker 1:
And then we're going to get everybody in there.
[00:37:23.510] speaker 1:
Everybody in the class at the end of the semester.
[00:37:27.050] speaker 1:
Pass the speech test.
[00:37:29.990] speaker 1:
You know, think about that.
[00:37:35.330] speaker 2:
You also talk about the deficit model of black talk.
[00:37:40.490] speaker 2:
Yeah,
[00:37:40.670] speaker 2:
so why is the deficit model so harmful?
[00:37:48.590] speaker 1:
In any.
[00:37:52.910] speaker 1:
Claim, it's practicing.
[00:37:56.630] speaker 1:
We know different.
[00:37:59.750] speaker 1:
And.
[00:38:03.050] speaker 1:
Speech language phenomenon in the human species.
[00:38:08.690] speaker 1:
And so everybody's.
[00:38:10.010] speaker 1:
Yeah.
[00:38:10.850] speaker 1:
Speech language gave a melody.
[00:38:13.670] speaker 1:
And platinum and then they were raised.
[00:38:22.730] speaker 1:
I mean, yes.
[00:38:27.530] speaker 1:
It's similar to what we just said about the kids.
[00:38:33.050] speaker 1:
Communication is disoriented.
[00:38:37.430] speaker 1:
Communication is only.
[00:38:41.390] speaker 2:
One of the last things I wanted to talk about with you is the expert or your experience as an expert witness because I thought that was very interesting too.
[00:38:53.690] speaker 2:
So whatever ones you want to talk about, the floor is yours.
[00:38:57.470] speaker 1:
This is my experience.
[00:39:01.190] speaker 1:
And Courtney.
[00:39:04.130] speaker 1:
And it made my first meeting, but by now, and it was 1969.
[00:39:15.830] speaker 1:
And there was a meeting and church near popular.
[00:39:23.510] speaker 1:
It's church.
[00:39:25.070] speaker 1:
In Detroit.
[00:39:27.590] speaker 1:
His parents, there was a Franklin spanner.
[00:39:31.010] speaker 1:
And.
[00:39:34.430] speaker 1:
He had been in his very first year.
[00:39:44.150] speaker 1:
We still need four.
[00:39:47.450] speaker 1:
We clearly called me.
[00:39:50.930] speaker 1:
But he was the head of their many parents ministers in the progressive thinking.
[00:40:02.030] speaker 1:
And knowing in his hand, were changed.
[00:40:05.030] speaker 1:
So he supported.
[00:40:10.430] speaker 1:
And he had allowed the imperfect and new African and national organization to hand a meaning in his church.
[00:40:25.670] speaker 1:
The.
[00:40:31.370] speaker 1:
Inferior leads and I knew him about it.
[00:40:37.430] speaker 1:
We didn't sleep in any I don't know what brought him to the church.
[00:40:41.630] speaker 1:
But then came to.
[00:40:46.790] speaker 1:
His church and this whole meeting and many insurance and feminine Republican have been in the fleet.
[00:41:06.050] speaker 1:
And when.
[00:41:10.550] speaker 1:
I got my name in 69, the big women injured and Amy would let it be killed.
[00:41:19.310] speaker 1:
So in the whole voice and it made the church, there is that every man in there me and women and children.
[00:41:28.670] speaker 1:
Like two, three and a baby.
[00:41:31.190] speaker 1:
And I'm doing a jail space for that many people.
[00:41:37.070] speaker 1:
I mean, so they put me in the bath.
[00:41:41.210] speaker 1:
I was swimming in the beach area of Bel Air.
[00:41:46.910] speaker 1:
This island park that's really one of the joints ground, too.
[00:41:52.550] speaker 1:
It's been out there in the Detroit river.
[00:41:56.030] speaker 1:
In between Windsor, Canada, on the Wednesday and in the lower east sandy showing in the foot have been the police like the mall.
[00:42:12.350] speaker 1:
And so this was now about ten or 11 times at night.
[00:42:17.030] speaker 1:
Then when Carl Jones kraken, they are doing great.
[00:42:24.290] speaker 1:
I mean, so at midnight, I'm hoping it's cracking.
[00:42:31.670] speaker 1:
Hail who are in the math House of swimming, the beach area.
[00:42:39.710] speaker 1:
And we need a lot of the women in children.
[00:42:43.730] speaker 1:
So.
[00:42:47.870] speaker 1:
We're dealing with that.
[00:42:51.410] speaker 1:
The police and he is, when in the middle of the public, they may have his name on the merit.
[00:43:01.610] speaker 1:
You know, new witnesses, no proof, no method.
[00:43:06.050] speaker 1:
And they arrested him.
[00:43:09.110] speaker 1:
And at that point, when I knew brilliant, lawyers, they had way too young.
[00:43:19.310] speaker 1:
In the country.
[00:43:21.590] speaker 1:
He was called to male arrangement.
[00:43:28.670] speaker 1:
You know, but we go proceedings.
[00:43:33.230] speaker 1:
And then yeah.
[00:43:38.570] speaker 1:
Mahan, James, that his male would give me thousand dollars.
[00:43:45.230] speaker 3:
At that time.
[00:43:48.530] speaker 3:
It.
[00:43:49.130] speaker 1:
Was 50,000 pounds and 1969 was the equivalent of 361,000 and $35 in 2020 to any $1.
[00:44:03.890] speaker 1:
Damn it, I mean, he was a working me, and he worked in this act and his community organization publicly.
[00:44:16.970] speaker 1:
There's an ordinary labor.
[00:44:20.030] speaker 1:
And he can hear you.
[00:44:27.170] speaker 1:
Leave me now as analysis.
[00:44:28.670] speaker 1:
If they are for the year, with $8670.
[00:44:34.610] speaker 1:
So, and then when.
[00:44:42.650] speaker 1:
He was in a level of black and white lawyers, there were very little leaning.
[00:44:51.050] speaker 1:
In the American limits.
[00:44:53.450] speaker 1:
The publicly.
[00:44:54.530] speaker 1:
I mean, he and two or three of his law bearings.
[00:44:58.670] speaker 1:
So they wouldn't allow me to go any witnesses when they had their arrangement.
[00:45:04.790] speaker 1:
For him, they wouldn't allow Kathryn inspired this to call any witnesses, for him.
[00:45:11.870] speaker 1:
And they confirmed to be in Latin America.
[00:45:17.450] speaker 1:
So that evening came in, meaning in the entity square park in Detroit, his name, the cockroach team, and gave me an important event of the trial on the hearing and then the trial.
[00:45:41.030] speaker 1:
So.
[00:45:44.090] speaker 1:
We need an impact on who is very smooth and.
[00:45:51.830] speaker 1:
Marianne and I mean, he thinks he and he and that meaning he told the public women have been ridiculous amount of the bail.
[00:46:07.970] speaker 1:
And me and me thank you judge.
[00:46:12.830] speaker 1:
And.
[00:46:16.670] speaker 1:
Yeah, he had a few choices for the judge.
[00:46:23.810] speaker 1:
He did, okay, so the community there.
[00:46:30.050] speaker 1:
He repaired the judge and lawless racist.
[00:46:35.870] speaker 1:
A robe man.
[00:46:40.550] speaker 1:
Happy dog food.
[00:46:43.370] speaker 3:
Honky dog.
[00:46:47.270] speaker 3:
That's amazing.
[00:46:54.350] speaker 1:
This guy's nuts.
[00:46:55.790] speaker 1:
This is my hundred.
[00:46:57.170] speaker 1:
And that's only on him.
[00:46:59.450] speaker 1:
So well, you can't imagine man.
[00:47:04.850] speaker 1:
Like that.
[00:47:06.170] speaker 1:
He revenue in the courtroom when he was outside in the park.
[00:47:10.310] speaker 1:
Talking to him, the community there.
[00:47:14.330] speaker 1:
And when the judge saw and the 11 o'clock news, that night.
[00:47:21.650] speaker 1:
And then, and then he got a thorn.
[00:47:27.590] speaker 1:
Even though he went in the corner, and then the trial of the lawyer for him, he just looks, there's no world was put aside for a minute.
[00:47:39.470] speaker 1:
And he had to start pathways trial.
[00:47:43.010] speaker 1:
And this content challenges.
[00:47:46.370] speaker 1:
Let me hear him and he, like I said, he would help me out.
[00:47:51.890] speaker 1:
He got me in and turning how and moving and he became and Angela Davis.
[00:47:58.610] speaker 1:
You know, kind of national and tyrannies, white and black.
[00:48:03.590] speaker 1:
That's when he called and me.
[00:48:05.270] speaker 1:
I was finishing my PhD.
[00:48:09.590] speaker 1:
And he called me to be a language expert at Manhattan is playing with appropriate, but he and people, he said, which was true.
[00:48:23.990] speaker 1:
And I found in with getting help, a linguist from MIT.
[00:48:33.350] speaker 1:
O'Neill.
[00:48:35.090] speaker 1:
And the two and a half again, Kenny's legal.
[00:48:40.910] speaker 1:
He put them in there.
[00:48:42.890] speaker 1:
Then he was speaking, the language of the people he was talking to.
[00:48:47.870] speaker 1:
And he was the only risk that theory.
[00:48:54.290] speaker 1:
And then he messaged in the audience.
[00:48:57.950] speaker 1:
And let me tell you, when I'm hearing, we sat next to me and Monday, the courtroom was packed.
[00:49:12.530] speaker 1:
And legal team, yeah.
[00:49:18.890] speaker 1:
Opening it and quote it.
[00:49:22.190] speaker 1:
The name of Wayne O'Neal is from me and my team.
[00:49:25.910] speaker 1:
And hopefully, one day to be famous, linguist, Geneva, from the University of Michigan.
[00:49:35.510] speaker 1:
That was the end of it.
[00:49:37.070] speaker 1:
When all that has happened and expert witness.
[00:49:45.950] speaker 1:
So that was dismissed.
[00:49:49.250] speaker 1:
And this.
[00:49:53.210] speaker 1:
In general.
[00:49:54.230] speaker 1:
And really theme and the legal trial, mister hidden.
[00:50:00.530] speaker 1:
That is when it was my first ever expert witness, and when am I moved exciting ever?
[00:50:11.270] speaker 3:
Yeah, I bet.
[00:50:12.590] speaker 1:
That's when I met.
[00:50:17.750] speaker 1:
Nearly 20.
[00:50:21.530] speaker 1:
But that's my favorite.
[00:50:23.810] speaker 3:
Yeah, I was a good one.
[00:50:25.430] speaker 3:
It is good.
[00:50:26.810] speaker 3:
Although, I wonder, I mean, I just really want to reiterate to our listeners.
[00:50:31.850] speaker 3:
You're writing is beautiful.
[00:50:33.410] speaker 3:
And you do not have to be, I don't care who you are.
[00:50:37.550] speaker 3:
You will like these books.
[00:50:40.490] speaker 3:
They're fascinating.
[00:50:41.930] speaker 3:
They are so well written.
[00:50:44.570] speaker 3:
And they're very approachable.
[00:50:46.850] speaker 3:
They're very approachable.
[00:50:48.890] speaker 3:
And I say both books because like I said, you did a word from the mother was reissued this year.
[00:50:55.370] speaker 1:
As well.
[00:50:56.450] speaker 1:
They kind of did a classic.
[00:50:59.210] speaker 1:
Classic.
[00:51:00.830] speaker 3:
Yeah, that's great.
[00:51:02.210] speaker 3:
Yeah, no.
[00:51:03.050] speaker 3:
So from the mother and my soul, look back and wonder, both at I can not recommend them more.
[00:51:11.510] speaker 3:
All of your writing.
[00:51:13.190] speaker 3:
I'm still in this.
[00:51:15.170] speaker 3:
I guess in the fight to, you know, overturn deficit models of black language of LatinX language.
[00:51:24.410] speaker 3:
Do you have any advice for me as I move forward?
[00:51:26.750] speaker 1:
You need no ALA.
[00:51:29.150] speaker 1:
Some LA's in different communities.
[00:51:32.570] speaker 1:
And different public policy levels.
[00:51:37.190] speaker 1:
Then if you can get so many works with or in a state or if they don't help.
[00:51:49.550] speaker 1:
So when you listen to your legal LA in your field, you legislate you.
[00:52:00.710] speaker 1:
And I have never.
[00:52:04.370] speaker 1:
And then community organizations in line with comedian uranium civic community in the black community you know.
[00:52:20.810] speaker 1:
It's a sorority.
[00:52:32.690] speaker 1:
You know, it's interesting.
[00:52:35.150] speaker 1:
Now it may come through life.
[00:52:38.750] speaker 1:
Where people seem disconnected.
[00:52:41.990] speaker 1:
And then here, when I think now, in this late stage of my life, people are connected.
[00:52:51.170] speaker 1:
I mean, they do care.
[00:52:52.910] speaker 1:
I mean, sometimes it might mean Trump's up or not that can.
[00:52:58.490] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:52:59.330] speaker 3:
We don't want them to connect.
[00:53:00.590] speaker 1:
Yeah.
[00:53:01.850] speaker 1:
Yeah.
[00:53:02.450] speaker 1:
What do you mean?
[00:53:05.990] speaker 1:
Nothing.
[00:53:07.670] speaker 1:
So inheritance to me.
[00:53:11.330] speaker 1:
And so that went out and say, if you reach out, the meaning, to legislators, or to be in the church community, in each church community.
[00:53:25.190] speaker 1:
I think you have a real help there.
[00:53:28.730] speaker 3:
Well, that's beautiful because I think it's like full circle here.
[00:53:31.790] speaker 3:
It's build community is what I'm hearing.
[00:53:34.490] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:53:35.390] speaker 1:
Yeah.
[00:53:37.970] speaker 3:
Thank you so much.
[00:53:39.110] speaker 3:
Thank you.
[00:53:39.470] speaker 1:
So much.
[00:53:47.750] speaker 1:
How did you come up with this name for your project?
[00:53:57.290] speaker 3:
The vocal fry?
[00:53:58.190] speaker 3:
Fries.
[00:53:59.810] speaker 2:
So back when.
[00:54:00.470] speaker 3:
We started this podcast, people were.
[00:54:02.270] speaker 2:
Still.
[00:54:02.750] speaker 3:
In the media.
[00:54:03.410] speaker 2:
Talking about vocal fry a lot, and how women are doing it too much, and it's.
[00:54:08.030] speaker 3:
Hurting their careers and blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:54:10.310] speaker 3:
And vocal fry is creek, just, you know, creek on our bowels.
[00:54:16.730] speaker 3:
Creaky.
[00:54:17.090] speaker 2:
Voice.
[00:54:17.870] speaker 2:
And you know, everyone uses it at least a little bit in English.
[00:54:23.090] speaker 2:
Some people use it more than others.
[00:54:24.830] speaker 2:
Men, men use it a lot, and no one cares.
[00:54:28.130] speaker 2:
Only.
[00:54:28.370] speaker 3:
We only care to notice it when women are using it.
[00:54:31.250] speaker 2:
So that was why I thought we should have a some kind of name.
[00:54:36.290] speaker 3:
Related to.
[00:54:36.650] speaker 2:
Vocal.
[00:54:36.950] speaker 3:
Fry.
[00:54:37.850] speaker 3:
And I was like, oh, vocal fries.
[00:54:40.070] speaker 3:
And I actually asked.
[00:54:41.390] speaker 2:
My husband to create to create.
[00:54:43.370] speaker 3:
This logo.
[00:54:46.130] speaker 3:
Yeah, that's pretty cute, right?
[00:54:50.150] speaker 3:
It's because I was like, oh my God.
[00:54:52.610] speaker 3:
Yeah.
[00:54:54.530] speaker 3:
I use vocal fry a lot.
[00:54:56.090] speaker 3:
Yes.
[00:54:57.290] speaker 3:
I'm of the generation that uses it a lot.
[00:54:59.690] speaker 3:
And it's like, okay, we have finally, okay, podcasts aren't normally hosted by women.
[00:55:04.370] speaker 3:
We are the minority in that.
[00:55:05.750] speaker 3:
So we have two women hosting.
[00:55:07.550] speaker 3:
So that added on to, I really liked how that.
[00:55:11.570] speaker 1:
Player.
[00:55:13.190] speaker 1:
It's good.
[00:55:14.450] speaker 1:
And definitely.
[00:55:18.650] speaker 3:
Yes, thank you.
[00:55:20.090] speaker 3:
Thank you.
[00:55:21.530] speaker 1:
That's great.
[00:55:22.250] speaker 1:
Thank you.
[00:55:30.170] speaker 3:
Yes.
[00:55:31.550] speaker 3:
Thank you.
[00:55:32.750] speaker 3:
And so much.
[00:55:33.650] speaker 3:
We leave our listeners with one final message on this show.
[00:55:44.570] speaker 1:
Wonderful.
[00:55:46.730] speaker 3:
Thank you so much.
[00:55:47.330] speaker 3:
Thank you.
[00:55:47.870] speaker 3:
Thank you so much.
[00:55:49.070] speaker 3:
Thank you, doctor G.
[00:55:52.670] speaker 1:
Yes, nice job.
[00:55:53.810] speaker 1:
And keep on pushing.
[00:55:56.210] speaker 3:
Thank you.
[00:55:56.450] speaker 3:
Thank you.
Carrie Gillon: The vocal fries podcast is produced by me, Keri gillan for halftone audio. The music by Nick branham. You can find us on tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at vocal fry's pod. You can email us at vocal fries pod at Gmail dot com and our website is vocal fry's pod dot com.